Quality elk tag numbers

[cb1989]

With 474 total quality elk tags combined and let's be generous and say their is a 25% success rate that is only about 119 bulls killed by hunters with quality bull permits in Washington combined. There was 333 antlered elk killed in unit 1 in Idaho last year by itself. That is dang near 3x as many elk killed in Idaho in one unit than all of Eastern Washington combined. We are screwed.

Idaho will get there eventually. Its all just supply and demand. Have you seen the trajectory of Idaho's population? And nobody is moving there to stay indoors. Washington was just the first state to fall. Too little habitat too many people. That is the disease. You can argue all day about how the symptoms are managed, but the disease itself is incurable, and fatal. Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming aren't good hunting because they've got geniuses running their game depts. It's because they have more habitat and fewer people. When we're old Idaho will be talked about the same way old timers now talk about Washington. Seems its already kind of happening with the deer hunting.

[whacker1]

Heck, I just did the Blue Mountain region quality bull tags for all 3 methods, and that totals 114 tags (counting the Watershed).  Just a few years ago that number was in the 200's and a little further back it was in the 300's.  Sad is the word that I use to describe what has happened to the Blue Mountain hunts (deer and elk).  Now it's just cool to say that you saw a legal animal while out in the field there.  Bummer!

Talked to a local bio yesterday and asked him what's up on the theory that the Blues (and other regions) are at or above the carrying capacity.  BS deal!  He agreed.  Couldn't really tell me what was considered a good herd # for anywhere in this state.  I laugh, as I think WA is shooting for a herd of "0".

As others have stated, start looking at other states if you want to enjoy a hunt with some chances of success.  I've been hunting in a number of other states and have had great times with family and friends and even killed or had chances of killing some nice animals.

Good luck to all!

This isn't direct at you, just using some of your comparisions.

I think if you go back to 2014 and transition to 2015, the numbers of quality bull tags went up in the blue mtns by nearly 30%.  i recall 6 archery tags in the tucannon going to 8.  2 muzzleloader tags going to 3, and 12 rifle tags going to 16.  i believe it was the same in the Mtn View and Dayton on a percentage.  i can't speak to all of the other units, but i recall it being a pretty healthy increase.  i watched it really close, because i drew in 2014.....so the time frame forward was of significant interest to me and my friends that hadn't yet drawn.

[bobcat]

With 474 total quality elk tags combined and let's be generous and say their is a 25% success rate that is only about 119 bulls killed by hunters with quality bull permits in Washington combined. There was 333 antlered elk killed in unit 1 in Idaho last year by itself. That is dang near 3x as many elk killed in Idaho in one unit than all of Eastern Washington combined. We are screwed.

Idaho will get there eventually. Its all just supply and demand. Have you seen the trajectory of Idaho's population? And nobody is moving there to stay indoors. Washington was just the first state to fall. Too little habitat too many people. That is the disease. You can argue all day about how the symptoms are managed, but the disease itself is incurable, and fatal. Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming aren't good hunting because they've got geniuses running their game depts. It's because they have more habitat and fewer people. When we're old Idaho will be talked about the same way old timers now talk about Washington. Seems its already kind of happening with the deer hunting.

Good post. That's exactly the issue. Too many people. There's nothing that's going to change that for the better.

The lack of elk has a lot to do with the fact that farmers/landowners aren't willing to have many elk on their land. We could have ten times the number of elk if people weren't living and/or growing food in what was previously elk habitat.

[fishngamereaper]

I don't think the tag numbers are justified based on the herd numbers I see. Tags could be doubled buts that just my 

And I don't know if the to many people argument is strong. Some loss of habitat yes.  Yes the states population increases. The number of hunters may ever so slightly increase(haven't checked just assuming) , but does the number of people that hunt increase? I've been hunting the same country off and on in different areas of the state for over 30 years and can honestly say none of my spots have been overrun with people. Maybe I'm in the minority.

One thing is for sure deer and elk tags might as well be OIL tags.

[Onewhohikes]

 

[SteelheadTed]

It sucks because i will be at 14 quality elk points this year and i don't even hunt elk in Washington anymore. I hate donating to the state but almost to vested to give up on the draw. Decisions.

Sounds like you should consider it a sunk cost and move on?

[Mr Mykiss]

A good rule of thumb might be that if you have less than 20 points your odds are less than 1%. 20-25 points will put you from 1-3% or so and 25-40 gets you in that magic 3-10% range.
Don’t ask how you get 40 points and I’m not gonna run the numbers for you.

[Stein]

It sucks because i will be at 14 quality elk points this year and i don't even hunt elk in Washington anymore. I hate donating to the state but almost to vested to give up on the draw. Decisions.

Sounds like you should consider it a sunk cost and move on?

For the cost of an elk license and quality application you can put in for similar horrible odds in another state and have a true trophy draw.  Of course, you would have to buy that tag, but it's going to be something special.  NM is a great place to look in that line.

Or, you can go buy lottery tickets or put it all on red at the casino and then luck out and buy yourself a tag.

[coachcw]

With 474 total quality elk tags combined and let's be generous and say their is a 25% success rate that is only about 119 bulls killed by hunters with quality bull permits in Washington combined. There was 333 antlered elk killed in unit 1 in Idaho last year by itself. That is dang near 3x as many elk killed in Idaho in one unit than all of Eastern Washington combined. We are screwed.

Idaho will get there eventually. Its all just supply and demand. Have you seen the trajectory of Idaho's population? And nobody is moving there to stay indoors. Washington was just the first state to fall. Too little habitat too many people. That is the disease. You can argue all day about how the symptoms are managed, but the disease itself is incurable, and fatal. Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming aren't good hunting because they've got geniuses running their game depts. It's because they have more habitat and fewer people. When we're old Idaho will be talked about the same way old timers now talk about Washington. Seems its already kind of happening with the deer hunting.

If a so called 119 are killed there's a much larger number of wounded dead elk so at least try and factor that in . the main problems i have are reckless lack of tribal help ie individuals that kill 20 plus bulls a year and the lack of a accurate bull count , plenty of bulls never get factored into the number .

[dvolmer]

A lot of members are complaining about special permit reductions this year compared to last year (and they should).  But if you want to get really sick and mad just find a copy of a 10 year old regulations and compare the reduction in the last 10 years and not just the last one!  It will make you mad and then make you sick and want to hurl!  They are slowly destroying Washington state big game hunting.  I'm no expert but I believe that in the last 10 years we haven't had a huge surge in the number of hunters.  What we have had is some terrible game management, huge increases in uncontrolled native trophy and retail meat hunting, uncontrolled wolf introduction, non-baiting bear hunting restrictions, no hound hunting for cats and bears, and a liberal government who has spent the income and resources of the sportsmen/women in this state on other social programs.  the honest law abiding sportsman who is out buying a license every year and trying to keep the rules the best they can have been totally hosed!  All they have done is paid a ton of money to a system that is in failure mode and gives all of its assets to non-paying and non-revenue producing special interest groups.  The Average Washington State sportsman/woman has been nothing more than robbed of their resource!

I can't speak for all of the hunting special permit categories but I have been putting in for over 35 years and I have seen the following.  In my quality elk choices I have seen the permits go from 17 to 3 and from 20 to 2.  In my antlerless elk choices I have seen it go from 300 to 10 and from 60 to zero.  In my bull elk choices it has went from 78 to 14. All of these are in Eastern Washington but not all in one area.  Both the Blues and the Yakima areas are where I apply and have applied in the past. I know that this is the case for the majority of the special permits in our state.  We are screwed for sure!  Id like to be optimistic but I truly do not see an answer for this.  Could this be fixed? YES!  Will it be fixed? NO!!!!  It really really wont, and that makes me sad.  Some of you will say I,m a dooms-day'r, but you all just wait another 10 years and then compare the allocations and you will see that I was unfortunately right!  The system is slowly eating the goose that lays their golden eggs!

[Onewhohikes]

When you say it can be fixed, what is your solution to fixing it?

[hhack]

Get rid of special tribal harvest. Treat everyone as equal.

[Pinetar]

A lot of members are complaining about special permit reductions this year compared to last year (and they should).  But if you want to get really sick and mad just find a copy of a 10 year old regulations and compare the reduction in the last 10 years and not just the last one!  It will make you mad and then make you sick and want to hurl!  They are slowly destroying Washington state big game hunting.  I'm no expert but I believe that in the last 10 years we haven't had a huge surge in the number of hunters.  What we have had is some terrible game management, huge increases in uncontrolled native trophy and retail meat hunting, uncontrolled wolf introduction, non-baiting bear hunting restrictions, no hound hunting for cats and bears, and a liberal government who has spent the income and resources of the sportsmen/women in this state on other social programs.  the honest law abiding sportsman who is out buying a license every year and trying to keep the rules the best they can have been totally hosed!  All they have done is paid a ton of money to a system that is in failure mode and gives all of its assets to non-paying and non-revenue producing special interest groups.  The Average Washington State sportsman/woman has been nothing more than robbed of their resource!

I can't speak for all of the hunting special permit categories but I have been putting in for over 35 years and I have seen the following.  In my quality elk choices I have seen the permits go from 17 to 3 and from 20 to 2.  In my antlerless elk choices I have seen it go from 300 to 10 and from 60 to zero.  In my bull elk choices it has went from 78 to 14. All of these are in Eastern Washington but not all in one area.  Both the Blues and the Yakima areas are where I apply and have applied in the past. I know that this is the case for the majority of the special permits in our state.  We are screwed for sure!  Id like to be optimistic but I truly do not see an answer for this.  Could this be fixed? YES!  Will it be fixed? NO!!!!  It really really wont, and that makes me sad.  Some of you will say I,m a dooms-day'r, but you all just wait another 10 years and then compare the allocations and you will see that I was unfortunately right!  The system is slowly eating the goose that lays their golden eggs!

WDFW and their biologist are a joke. They don't have a clue where to even go look for bulls to get their counts even close to being correct. They spend most of their time flying around the herds counting calves, cow and bulls. 99.9% of the bulls are in small bachelor groups higher then the herds in the spring and winter. By the time they get motivated and out flying around the bulls are all bedded down in the timber. HELL, last week they were out all night till daylight running around in the Taneum on sleds counting Owls, if they would get this motivated on our Elk herds they might actually realize our bull numbers are doing fine/great depending on the unit. I have even seen them several times out flying and counting bulls in April

Get out of your office and out from behind your desk and go get real life data. Twenty years ago you would see the biologist in the hills all winter/spring doing their job. Now they just sit behind their desks and push numbers around, unless they are counting Owls.

[ridgefire]

Before long it will be a complete draw just to hunt general season.

[WSU]

Before long it will be a complete draw just to hunt general season.

If that happens I am heading out of state every year.  The only reason to hunt in state is that I can do it every year and not have to hope to draw a tag.