Less mountain goat tags coming?

[trophyhunt]

Josh, does your post say they counted 1 goat on castle mnt?

Yes. That’s what it says. That’s a screenshot of an email from a WDFW biologist.

wow! Do they really think we believe that? 

[fishngamereaper]

Josh's post and others that have hunted goats prove the primary point as far as wdfw is concerned. They don't put a ton of effort into counting goat's, and don't have a full grasp of how the goat's have expanded beyond their normal area's.

[DeerThug]

From my recollection there was a lot of controversy when the biologist in charge was brought on at wdfw and was touted as an anti-hunter.  In looking as some of the papers he has written that seems to be a valid concern.  In fact in looking at what he has authored one would have to wonder how he has time to do his actual job.   I would bet if someone could go back and see when  Harris came on it would track with the timing of reduction in  goat tags. 

I know when I had my tag there were so many goats it was unreal.  Tons of nannies and kids so from my observation reproduction was not an issue.  I know I kept notes on the numbers seen and sent it in with my report.  Could be that if they only have one hunter sending in notes on what was seen then they think there are few goats.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard_Harris25

There is an paper here by Harris on the negative effects of trophy hunting. 

I too think that this is a crock when it comes to tag numbers for goats.    We can comment as I did but will do little good....

[fishngamereaper]

State makes a ton of money off of oil apps.

Chance of drawing anything in an oil category is so slim and getting worse, it might be time for a little financial protest.

[jackelope]

Rich Harris is retired now.

[sagemd]

Well I personally wouldn't want to have goat hunting in the Enchantments. Those goats are so tame and there is absolutely way too many people there. I think they need to relocate some of them to an area where they can be hunted. Back in the Early 2000's I believe the some of the goat population had some virus or worm I forget what it was. I think the could have put medication on or in a salt block and stopped it but they never did. Have you ever seen them group up in the fall when its breeding time? I saw 25 goats in the GPW in one 100 yard area.

Tame goats need to be hunted. Tame mountain goats is what lead to the death of a hiker in the Olympics.
To many hikers in over populated goat habitat is not healthy for goats.
 What does the amount for people in an area have to do with goat hunting. Hunting is a very safe management tool.
 Relocation is very expense.
 It is paid for by hunters/license and tag sales. Increasing tag sale (permits in the Enchantments) increases funds for relocation.
Virus or worm ? When you figure it out!!  But yes goats have been and are mismanaged in Washington.
Goats breed in late November. Not in the fall.  A group of 25 is not uncommon, spring, summer or fall.

The problem with hunting in the Enchantments is when you have literally 100's of hikers,trail runners, going thru the area it is not conducive or even good for public relations to send goat hunters up there to shoot animals. When goats are 10 feet away from people it is not ideal circumstances for a hunt. Us as hunters have to know when be respectful of other recreation users. When it comes to getting what we want bad public relations don't help. It reminds me of the bear hunter that shot the bear on MT So trail and left it for an extended amount of time. That got so much bad PR it hurts our cause when we want to keep things like spring bear hunts.

Hunting goats in heavy used back country should not be a problem. It is done every year in Colorado.
I have been there and done that.  In fact most hunters set a great example and communicate with other user groups. Most reasonable people respond well once they understand. The unreasonable people never will understand. You bring up an example of bad behavior from a hunter, it happens. There are allot of good examples set in the woods and on the mountain every year. Not doing the right thing because some may not set the right example ??
The example of shooting goats ten feet away from people seems silly. There is no reason for that. And is a very negative view. Allowing a goat within ten feet of you (hiker, trail runner or hunter) is foolish and puts yourself and the goat at risk of harm or deaf. That is what happened in the Olympics. Goats should have some fear of humans or humans should not be allowed in the same habitat.

[Skyvalhunter]

Have you been in the Enchantments? It is an absolute zoo.during what would be the hunting season there are so many people you cannot find a parking spot there is a reason there is a lottery with less than 5% chance of getting drawn for overnight camping. There is a huge difference between the Olympics goats and Enchantments hands down. I have seen people hand feed them up there. Not smart but they are comfortable around people.

[sagemd]

Yes I have been to the Enchantments. Yes it is a zoo. Have you been to the goat units in Colorado? Very similar.
It is the same thing as the Olympics, as far as the danger of goats not fearing humans.
As stated goat hunting would be a positive solution to the dangerous behavior of the humans and goats.
Could raise funds for relocation and have a positive public relation into the good hunting provides to other user groups. Hiding what we are so the public doesn't see, only reinforces the incorrect negative views the public may have.

[Skyvalhunter]

Your entitled to your opinion but it won't happen. When there's little to no chance of getting a camping permit if you even drew a goat permit. This is Wa you have to be realistic.

[2MANY]

WDFW is pathetic at managing our resources.

[Ghost Hunter]

The good old days.

How many permits for Chopaka Mt. in 1969?  I know a father/son team that got theirs around that time.

[brocka]

I can only comment (and did on the survey) on the Bumping River unit. Spending a week in there with a bull tag a few years ago, I couldn't believe how many goats were back in there. I saw more goats than bulls, that is for sure. I doubt anyone is in there counting those goats? And I doubt anyone is going in and hunting those goats. Especially when you can get one from 410...

I counted 79 in two areas the other day.... Just a fraction of what is in North end of the unit.

Yep. I bet we had 25 in the basin I was hunting. Lots of nannies and kids, but still, tons of goats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[65supplier]

This makes very little sense if you're me.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/ots-28751_0.pdf

1 less Naches Pass tag. 1 less Bumping River tag. 1 less Goat Rocks West tag. The Goat Rocks one is the one that makes zero sense to me at all. There are tons of goats there. I'm not the most educated goat guy on the planet, so maybe there's something I'm missing.





Also I noticed the proposal mentions "who may apply." The way I read this is if you've killed a goat here in WA, you're done. Even if it was a raffle or auction tag. This has never been the case before, and there is no proposed change to the other OIL species in this regard....so why mountain goat?




I have no dog in this fight in terms of tags for me. I've already got mine. Just trying to see the logic in these changes.

@Bushcraft

Definitely think the WDFW doesn't have the budget or the resources to accurately determine the correct tag allotment for goat and sheep units. You see it on the Manson sheep unit and countless others across the state, Bio don't know whats truly going on inside the unit, guys like us with boots on the ground really see what happening. Its a bummer they don't listen to the public more

[Skyvalhunter]

How do you see it on the Manson sheep hunt. If you think that the Manson unit can sustain more permits your missing the point. The Manson unit is not a quality unit compared to areas like Chelan Butte due to the fact that the sheep harvested there are not the older age more mature sheep. The state just can't increase the number of permits because the sheep population is high. They also have to manage for larger rams. The biologist do listen to the public as I know of a lot of hunters that have interacted with the biologists. Why do you think you are required to get your sheep pinned by WDFW when it's harvested? Its because the WDFW can see size age, etc and take that into consideration when the number of permits is determined.

[sagemd]

Your entitled to your opinion but it won't happen. When there's little to no chance of getting a camping permit if you even drew a goat permit. This is Wa you have to be realistic.

Yes, you are correct "it won't happen. "This is Wa you have to be realistic."  On this we agree.
It won't happen because Washington wildlife, mountain goat especially are miss managed. As well as WDFW's public relations.
This is the whole point of this thread.