Anti-"Flossing"/Leader Length Restriction

[ducks4days]

I dislike flossing and flossers.  It some cases, like the Skok, it can take biters and turn them into worse biters because they are constantly being harassed.  I avoid fishing in those types of situations.

That said, places were flossing is effective are places with a whole lot of fish stacked up.  Often those are hatchery fish created for us to harvest.  I don't see why we should let the rest of the fishers (commercial and tribal) fish with nets and more effective gear and then limit our ability to harvest our share.  In reality, we should get rid of bag limits in those situations and do everything possible to harvest all the hatchery fish we can.  Taking away flossing would be counterproductive.

Numerous lawsuits have decided that the purpose of the hatcheries is to preserve SRKWs and treaty fishing rights. They should be, but those fish arent for recreational anglers.

[fishngamereaper]

Sounds like it's already illegal...

Come on DFW...get it together

[bigtex]

Sounds like it's already illegal...

Come on DFW...get it together

Like I said, flossing is illegal but its difficult to prove. That's why Oregon and others instituted a leader length restriction.

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[jackelope]

Flossing is/was legal in upstate NY.  We used to do it like mad in the Lake Ontario tributaries. Leaders were required. Minimum length 24”. No weight below the swivel. Used to floss the crap out of salmon with sub 30” leaders. We just couldn’t keep fish unless they were hooked in the mouth.

[fishngamereaper]

Sounds like it's already illegal...

Come on DFW...get it together

Like I said, flossing is illegal but its difficult to prove. That's why Oregon and others instituted a leader length restriction.

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Well unless you guys can interview the fish....But..
Ya based on the way WA laws are written...it seems impossible to prove.
Who's pushing the proposed rule... BIOS or Enforcement?

[Tbar]

Sounds like it's already illegal...

Come on DFW...get it together

This is purely a policy call.  Samish is talking about cutting production because of the difficulty disposing of the biomass.  He references ethics and resource which is wrong on at least two of the terminal areas he mentioned.  Terminal areas where they exceed take, surplus and escapement.  So ethical methods can be very broad unless there is a purist mentality. 

[WSU]

Sounds like it's already illegal...

Come on DFW...get it together

This is purely a policy call.  Samish is talking about cutting production because of the difficulty disposing of the biomass.  He references ethics and resource which is wrong on at least two of the terminal areas he mentioned.  Terminal areas where they exceed take, surplus and escapement.  So ethical methods can be very broad unless there is a purist mentality.

Amen.

[Rob Allen]

 Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court..  they say  you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon  no question about it you are snagging  if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah  you've been doing it  your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are.   if you have to hook a number of fish to get one  " in the mouth"  you are a poacher.
 regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth"    everything else is snagging.  hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should  feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.

Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
 Oak Park on the Washougal  yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis  snaggers
 the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger

 how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right

 snaggers  are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers,  no different than shooting an elk out of season
 

[HntnFsh]

 the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth
Is this actually in the regs?
Dont they say something about must be hooked in the head?
If so seems like conflicting info.

I havent looked and dont have a set of regs in front of me.

There are several fisheries that I feel flossing should be fine. Cowlitz system coho for example.

[freshgrease]

Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court..  they say  you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon  no question about it you are snagging  if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah  you've been doing it  your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are.   if you have to hook a number of fish to get one  " in the mouth"  you are a poacher.
 regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth"    everything else is snagging.  hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should  feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.

Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
 Oak Park on the Washougal  yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis  snaggers
 the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger

 how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right

 snaggers  are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers,  no different than shooting an elk out of season

This high horse attitude about flossing is the funniest hill to die on.

I hope you never go fishing in alaska and have to suddenly judge the thousands of locals flipping for reds. All awful people.

I've had family members that are fishing guides, and myself, catch plenty of trout, pink salmon especially, and other fish with a small red bead or corky pegged 2" above the hook drifting our boats on the Kenai. Must be completely unethical of us. Game wardens really let us have it with all the zero dollar tickets each time we chatted.

Ever watch people fish the Russian river?

This whole argument is a damn joke to be having. Yall just need to mind your own business when your fishing and remember why you're out there. It's the same effect as getting mad that some people shoot animals over mounds of corn

[bigtex]

the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth
Is this actually in the regs?
Dont they say something about must be hooked in the head?
If so seems like conflicting info.

I havent looked and dont have a set of regs in front of me.

There are several fisheries that I feel flossing should be fine. Cowlitz system coho for example.

This is discussed in my original post.

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[Tbar]

Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court..  they say  you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon  no question about it you are snagging  if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah  you've been doing it  your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are.   if you have to hook a number of fish to get one  " in the mouth"  you are a poacher.
 regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth"    everything else is snagging.  hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should  feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.

Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
 Oak Park on the Washougal  yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis  snaggers
 the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger

 how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right

 snaggers  are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers,  no different than shooting an elk out of season

This is a poor comparison on many levels. If you have a conservation reference please cite it.  If not it's a policy or ego conflict. In many of the areas where conservation goals are met actual snagging could be viewed as ethical (use vs waste). There are several post take terminal areas in Alaska where snagging is allowed with liberal limits.  In the samish, with the mess that it is,  there isn't the horsepower to negatively effect the needs. Again these are terminal areas and stacked hatchery fish that are in excess of egg take,  escapement AND surplus.  Nutrient delivery to nearby forest has limitations and is mostly feel good (or accusatory).

[Rob Allen]

Intentionally  breaking game laws without any form of without any change  of behavior  makes  you a habitual  hardened poacher.. snagging included.
  Just like the Facebook poaching rings that get busted that's the same caliber of people..

[BA Mongor]

Some people are delusional. Let's give more power to individuals that can access your property whenever they see fit and empower them more to make judgment calls on if a fish bit your lure or not! Just plain stupid. And lets make sure your word means nothing in a court of law.

Heck, we might as well just give them the power to sentence you on the spot. 

[hollymaster]

Flossing is the only way to catch fish in the puke and carbon. Inch or two of visibility.